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Charlemagne RnD
The purpose of this page to to hold "research" regarding Charlemagne.
It is the process of Roy doing a genealogy search trying to go beyond current family members.
Following gets boring so feel free to pass onto more exotic finds within christopherson.net. There is no "Update Date" which is on many other pages at this site.
Rather, all of the following text will be revised on-the-fly or added to at any time .

KNOWN FACTS
Charlemagne , is a well known historical figure. Roy will place a few key reference points, then specific lineage and research leading up to Robert The Bruce. While Roy believes he is related, keep in mind that records beyond 1800 cannot always be 100% accurate.


11/12/2011 2:11 AM
Compiled our conversations on Charlemagne (Charles The Great) to keep that trail from getting cold. Have to go back to Poppa as she is controversial and if not related, whole branch becomes null and void. ...
Roy

DOC_0095_Charlemagne Research
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlemagne
His Father
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepin_the_Short
4/23/2011 12:34 PM
Hi Bruce,
Yes, still researching this. Found interesting quote mentioning Charlemagne.

...A few weeks later, an amazing paper by Robert C. Gunderson, called "Connecting Your Pedigree Into Royal, Noble, and Medieval Families," came in the mail. Gunderson, who heads the Genealogical Society's Royalty Identification Unit, has calculated that if you kept multiplying by two the progenitors of a person born today-doubling his parents, their parents, etc.-the person would have (based on an average generation length of twenty-five years) something like two hundred and eighty-one trillion forebears alive at the time of Charlemagne. Each person's pedigree, in other words, experiences a sort of retrogressive population explosion. ...
http://www.dispatchesfromthevanishingworld.com/pastdispatches/mountain/mountain_1.html

On Sat, Feb 12, 2011 at 3:30 PM, roy
Yes, i am only on first citation pass. Going to take awhile. ... I had an incorrect father and I believe the correct one goes to him.

2/13/2011 12:33 AM
Re: Robert II
This would be the dude.

Charlemagne, aka Charles the Great, b. possibly 742 – 28 January 814 was
King of the Franks from 768 and Emperor of the Romans (Imperator Romanorum). Research pending.

On 2/12/2011 7:58 AM, Bruce Costello wrote:
*_Charlemagne_*, Emperor of the first Holy Roman Empire???

Roy Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 4:10 AM
Just finished. Leads back to Rollo's wife Poppa. All the Dukes of Nomandy are under William Longsword aka William 1 who is a 26th ggf.
Rollo conquered normandy and kidnapped poppa. He is listed on the Ancestor page.
> Just found Charleme? Who is a ggf of relation. Need to get branch to grandson.
redacted

> On Thu, Feb 10, 2011 at 2:05 AM, Roy wrote:
> > Bruce,
> You know what, I came across this very cool picture of a King quite awhile ago and it really dumbfounded me. Here I follow adding some children and come across the very same painting at
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_II_of_France
> > Image is in upper right
> > Now his relation is not direct. For me, paintings help bring them alive as well, if done semi-accurately.
> > He is Father of mother-in-law of 3rd great grandson of 26th great grandfather of ours.
> > Roy
RobertIIofFrance
This chart shows Robert II of France at bottom right.

Email 1
2/10/2011 7:55 PM
Bruce
I discovered Rollo through a marriage, my first day a few years ago on Ancestry.com which came up with this. "Famous People related to Hrolf Ganger Of Normandy (Unconfirmed,
from WorldTree)", linking him to myself.
Took me a long time to build up the whole branch properly. I only just recently proved them wrong regarding Greta Garbo, who is NOT related.
Bruce, I believe he is our 26th Great Grandfather [Rollo] going through seven women and 16 males down to GGGF Kristofer Andresson to GGF Sigurdur then us.
Rollo is the great-great-great-grandfather of William the Conqueror. Through William, he is an ancestor of the present-day British royal family, as well as an ancestor of all current European monarchs and a great many pretenders to abolished European thrones.

There are no concrete records of his existence. Information on him comes 200 years later.

I am in the process of correcting Poppa, wife of Hrolf or as I like to refer to him as Rollo, a.k.a. Hrolf Ganger Of Normandy, Hrólfur "rauðskeggur", Göngu-Hrólfur Rögnvaldsson, Rollo Of Normandy, Count Rollo "The Dane" Rognvaldsson, Rolf Ragnvaldsson, Rollo the Gangler (Walker) which referred to him to be too large to ride a horse, hence had to walk., Rolf, Hrolf, Rollon, and Rollo, 1st Duke of Normandy.
Rollo was born Abt. 846 AD, Maer, Nord-Trondelag, Norway
"Imposes himself as chief of the Vikings settled in the lower Seine region. He repels the Franks, pushing right up to the doors of the Ile-de-France. He attacks Chartres but, repulsed, withdraws again to the Seine." source: http://royroyes.net/genealogy/getperson.php?Update May 2015: Link dead, use this one http://royroyes.net/getperson.php?personID=I2772&tree=rr_tree
INFO
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollo
I have a finding that Poppa was NOT the daughter of Berengar II of Neustria, she was daughter of Gui, Count of Senlis. Roy came across this well documented page a long time ago, just now getting back to posting lineage online here.

"Hence, the best evidence to date seems to indicate that
Poppa, wife of Rolf the Ganger, 1st Duke of Normandy,
was a daughter of Gui, Count of Senlis
and a great X3 granddaughter of Charlemagne."
Robert Sewell
Citation [2]

Gui is related to King of Italy.
redacted
Charlemagne. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlemagne
Roy

Posting the exact search result which was almost one of Roy's first genealogy finds
Famous People related to Hrolf Ganger Of Normandy (Unconfirmed, from WorldTree)
RID=12310236; UP=33; DN=0 Diego Velázquez (1599-1660)
Spanish painter
Diego Veláázquez was a Spanish painter of the Baroque period. Though Veláázquez was primarily a portrait painter, his best known piece, entitled "Las Meninas",
is the informal painting of the Spanish Royal Family.
Relationship: Distant (31) Great Grandfather. Roy has not followed up on this.
Here is Diegos's Tree to our time http://www.royalist.info/execute/tree?person=906

RID=11015312; UP=3; DN=12 Greta Lovisa Gustafsson (Greta Garbo) (1905-1990)
Swedish Actress
Discovered in Sweden, Greta Garbo moved to America with a contract to act for MGM Studios. Greta acted in such movies as "Mata Hari" and "Anna Karenina".
She retired from acting in 1941 at the age of 36.
Relationship: 2nd Cousin 9 times removed. Roy has proven this tree's information to be FALSE. See Family Tree > Great Ancestor page for more.

RID=44957598; UP=3; DN=21 Anna of Russia (1693-1740)
Empress of Russia
Anna Ivanovna reigned as Duchess of Courland from 1711 to 1730 and as Empress of Russia from 1730 to 1740. She strongly disliked and distrusted Russian nobles and created a special police force to intimidate those who opposed her.
Relationship: 2nd Cousin 18 times removed
See RnD page

RID=177347035; UP=14; DN=21 Ferdinand von Zeppelin (1838-1917)
Zeppelin Airship Founder
Ferdinand von Zeppelin was the founder of the Zeppelin airship company. However, the crash of the Hindenburg ended the production of his airships.
Relationship: 13th Cousin 7 times remove. Roy has not followed up on this, as many trees there are inaccurate.

Adobe PDF_iconRelationship Chart - Bruce Costello to Rollo a.k.a. Rolf the Ganger, 1st Duke of Normandy

From: "Bruce Costello Date: Sat, Feb 12, 2011 7:58 am
    Subject: Robert II

    *Charlemagne*, Emperor of the first Holy Roman Empire???

Roy to Bruce
Only on first citation pass. Going to take awhile.  I am
    trying to stay on the loerr banches but wr must go back.  I had an
    incorrect father and I believe the correct one goes to him. Only
    familiar with Ceasar and Nero-burning.

Hi Sue, ...Redacted...Rollo is one of my funnest searches. Part truth, part mystery and legend. So take his connection with a grain of salt. A viking conquer DID exist in that time.
Bruce Costello spurred me on to research that branch which MIGHT lead to Charlemagne (sp). Redacted

Roy to Bruce 7/26/2012 1:11 AM
http://www.christopherson.net/genealogy/familytree/grandparents3.html#Rollo

26th Great Grandfather
Emily Einarson Enn's 27th GGF
*Hrolf Ganger of Normandy *
NORWEGIAN VIKING ...

Go to the URL above. I have continued my initial research. It does appear to be our ancestor. Have yet to add parents of Poppa in family database. I only deleted the parents that were incorrect. When I have from Poppa up to C. The Great, will post report online. Poppa was always obscure and this appears to be correct lineage. I am searching the 500+ pages of the Complete Peerage (redacted) - No Match.

Keep in mind Rollo was not recorded at the time of his rule, it was 200 years later. Yet he looks pretty solid a connection. He is already on Reports page. Look for Rollo (redacted) just wanted real good sources. Never really mentioned Poppa before, now she will take her place with Rollo!
albeit, a Captive.(redacted)

August 02, 2012
"...When the Franks conquered the Visigoths in southern Gaul huge numbers of Whites entered the slave markets. “After Charlemagne’s conquest of Saxony, during which many pagan Saxons were enslaved, he set up a network of parish churches. To provide for the maintenance of the priest and the church, those living in the parish were to donate a house and land as well as a male and female (Saxon) slave to the church for every 120 people in the parish” (William Phillips. p. 52)...".source


Looking over branches here at Lady Kathleen site here
King of the Franks, Charles Martel 668 - 741
King of the Franks, Pepin Quentin, III 714 - 768


SOURCE: ROBERT SEWELL:
1. Clovis, a Ripuarian Frank who was the King of Cologne circa 420 AD.  Frankish "kings" at this time were really just local tribal chieftains.  fl. ca. 420 (flourished circa 420) ...

2. Childebert who was a the King of Cologne circa 450 A.D.  fl. ca. 450

3. Siegbert the Lame who was the King of Cologne.  Murdered in 509  Seigbert was murdered by his son

4. Cloderic the Parricide who was briefly the King of Cologne.  Cloderic murdered his father in 509, and was himself murdered the same year by Clovis I...

5. Murideric, Lord of Vitrey 

6. St. Gondulfus  Born in 524  Died on July 6, 607.  St. Gondulfus was Bishop of Tongres (consecrated in 599), Governor of Marseilles in 581 and Mayor of the Palace to Theibert (I).

7. Duke Bodegisil (II) was the Governor of Aquitane.  Killed in 588  Duke Bodegisil (II) married Oda,

8. St. Arnoself of Metz was the Bishop of Metz and is also known as Arnold, Arnulf and Arnuiph. 

9. Duke Ansigise who was Mayor of the Palace in Austrasia in 632

10. Pépin of Heristal who was Mayor of the Palace in Austrasia.  Born circa 635  Died on December 16, 714  Pépin married first to Plectrud, a daughter of Hugobert and Irmina...

11. Charles "The Hammer" Martel who was the Mayor of the Palace in Austrasia, and as such, was the virtual ruler of France.

12. Pépin the Short, King of the Franks who was Mayor of the Palace in Austrasia and who had himself declared King of the Franks in 751.


13. Charlemagne, Emperor of the West, Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire, Charlemagne Quentin 742 - 814
CHARLES I King of the Franks, son of PEPIN "le Bref" King of the Franks & his wife Bertrada [Berta] "au Grand Pied" (near Aix-la-Chapelle 2 Apr 748-Aix-la-Chapelle 28 Jan 814, bur Aix-la-Chapelle, Chapelle Sainte-Marie). He defended the Pope against the Lombards, conquering their kingdom in 773. He adopted the title "rex Francorum et Langobardorum atque patricius Romanorum" 5 Jun 774, in effect succeeding as CHARLES I King [of Italy] although no record has been found in the surviving charters that he used this title. Crowned Emperor CHARLES I at Aachen 25 Dec 800. Source
Charlemagne


14. Pépin (I), King of Italy  who was crowned King of Italy by his father Charlemagne in 781.Born in April 773  Died on July 8, 810, before his father Charlemagne.  Pépin married in 795 to Bertha who may have been his cousin; a daughter of  his Uncle Carloman. King Bernard was a grandson of Charlemagne

15. "King Bernard of Italy (b. 797, d. 818; King of Italy 813 - 817) Bernhard, King of Italy who revolted in July 817 when his uncle, Louis (I) the Pious who had succeeded Charlemagne as Emperor, proceeded to divide the empire among his sons, Bernhard's cousins."
"BERNARD, illegitimate son of PEPIN I King of Italy & his mistress" [5]
..."had one son: 1. PEPIN ([815]-after 850). Regino names "Pippinum" son of "Bernhardus filius Pippin rex Italiæ"[646]. Seigneur de Péronne et de Saint Quentin[647]. Comte near Paris after 834. - COMTES de VERMANDOIS." [5]
This gives more information to link the family to 16b. The website is very detailed.

16. Seigneur Pépin de Peronne, son of Bernard, King of Italy Died after 846
His children included:
16a Child 1: Herbert I Count of Vermandois, died between 900 and 904. His son: Herbert II Count of Vermandois, died in 943
16b Child 2: a daughter X who married Gui, Count of Senlis, Count Gui de Senlis, mother of Poppa. TO DO - LOCATE HER NAME
17. Duchess Poppa de Normandie, a.k.a. Papia (Poppa) de Valois,[source2], Poppa|Papie of Bayeux, Lady Poppa, Duchess of Norway, Religion: Poppa is that she was a Christian,
Residence: Evreux, Nuestria. Poppa by force, married to Count Rollo "The Dane" Rognvaldsson, a.k.a. ROLLO, Roy's 28th GGF. Again, his existence is questionable! See Reports page for Relationship charts.

This forum has the above lineage copied from Robert Sewell's website and pasted in as text here.

Connection to the Christophersons, Taylors, and Einarsons:
Best evidence to date seems to indicate that Poppa (See # 17 above), wife of Rolf the Ganger, 1st Duke of Normandy. A.K.A. Rollo. (See Relationship Chart - Bruce Costello to Rollo above)


Rollo
 


Robert Sewell http://www.robertsewell.ca/charlemagne.html
What is missing here is Roy going over evidence Robert Sewell posted online.He logically disputed one lineage based on ealier research
The Ancestry of Poppa wife of Rolf the Ganger
Here is a Digital PDF copy of the book Robert mentions
The Plantagenet ancestry of King Edward III and Queen Philippa by George Andrews Moriarty, comprehensive index This is just an Index, cannot find book free online.
Robert posts pages from this book and outlines convincing evidence on Poppa. Checked 15 pages of Google Search results for this book...not online.

This one might be of interest
Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study In Colonial And Medieval Families, 2nd Edition ... By Douglas Richardson Has Arundel and 1 Taylor.


Added NOV, 2012 [Updated May 17, 2015]
Search for Poppa's Mother
Off to work, will resume another time.
18. Æsa Hrólfsdóttir [subscribe db - Icelandic Roots], born 890 AD is the daughter of Poppa and Rollo, and our 25th Great Grandmother. [Hallfdan's db does sho Rollo (Hrolf) as father.]
Hrólfur 'rauðskeggur' Rögnvaldsson, b. Abt 846, Maer, Nord-Trondelag, Norway Find all individuals with events at this location, d. Abt 930 (Age ~ 84 years) Source: Icelandic Database
Source: [1] Halfdan Helgason, Icelandic db of 500,000. Sold off to Utah group, db converted to subscribe Icelandic and Western Icelandic immigrants at http://www.icelandicrootsdatabase.com.
19. Þórunn Þorsteinsdóttir, b: Abt. 920 AD, Child 1 of Poppa and Rollon. Þorsteinn Ingólfsson, b. Abt 890
20. Ketill Þorkelsson, b: Abt. 965 AD
21. Haukur Ketilsson, b: Abt. 1020
22. Ingveldur Hauksdóttir, b: Abt. 1060, d. 1065 of, Skard, Dala, Iceland [3]
23. Snorri Húnbogason, b: 1100, d. 1170 Skard, Skardstrond, Dala, Iceland, Occupation: Prestur og Lögsögumaður
WIKI: Snorri Húnbogason (d. 1170) var íslenskur lögsögumaður og goðorðsmaður á 12. öld. Hann bjó á Skarði á Skarðsstönd og var af ætt Skarðverja.

Snorri var sonur Húnboga Þorgilssonar á Skarði og Yngveldar Hauksdóttur konu hans. Hann var prestvígður. Lögsögumaður var hann í 14 ár, frá 1156 til dauðadags. Hann virðist hafa verið friðsemdarmaður eins og faðir hans og blandaðist ekki inn í hatrammar deilur nágranna sinna, Hvamm-Sturlu og Einars Þorgilssonar í Tungu.

Kona Snorra var Ingveldur Atladóttir og synir þeirra voru Þorgils (d. 1201) á Skarði, prestur í Skarðsþingum, Narfi (d. 1202) á Skarði og Álfur á Ballará. Sonur Narfa, Skarðs-Snorri, tók við búi á Skarði eftir lát föður síns og föðurbróður.

[breyta] Heimild

Loose wiki Iceland translation
Snorri Húnbogason (d. 1170 ) was an Icelandic lögsögumaður and a chieftain in the 12th century . He lived to pass on Skarðsstönd and was a descendant of pass protected .

Snorri was the son Hunbogi Þorgilsson to pass, Yngveldar Hauksdottir his wife. He was ordained a priest. Lögsögumaður he was 14 years, from 1156 until his death. He seems to have been friðsemd man as his father and blandaðist not into bitter disputes of his neighbors, plateau-Sturla and Einar Þorgilsson Tongue.

Snorri was a ? Ingveldur Atladóttir and their sons were Thorgils (d. 1201) of the pass, a priest replacement assemblies, Narfi (d. 1202 ) to pass and the Wizard Ball. Son Narfi, pass-Snorri , took over the estate of the pass after the death of his father and uncle.

Oldest heritage in Iceland. Lögberg, 5 in August 1926. See under Web Page folder, PSD file 'HL_WEB_0162_Snorri Hunbogason_Clipping'
There are 137 search results for Snorri Húnbogason at the Logberg here.All in Icelandic.
24. Narfi Snorrason, b: Abt. 1135 or 1145, d. 1202, Priest at Skard in Dalasysla. Narfi is our 19th Great Grandfather, just as #19 - #23 are our G.Grandparents.
Narfi is related to all Icelanders.
See the PDF above for full Relationship Chart.



Bruce to Charlemagne
Short Lineage from Bruce Costello to Charlemagne. There are more family members between individuals.

August 3, 2012
"Now I found a fascinating book about "the families that made Rome", by  Canadian Anthony Majanlahti and he is pretty blunt with his opinion about  the origins of the Colonna family:  "The family established itself in Rome by the end of the twelfth century,  but a certain fog hovers over their origins. Some authorities assert their  descent from the family of the counts of Tusculum, though the only basis  for this is the geographical proximity of the power bases of the two  families."
Source
Then he mentions how others want to claim this family descended from  Julius Caesar and thus from the goddess Venus. 
Anthony Majanlahti agrees with Genealogisches Handbuch des Adels, that the  first acceptable Colonna is Pietro I 1078-1108  And so, sadly, I am going to disbelieve George Williams who gives a  slightly differing line of descent, and I am going to disconnect Pietro I  from Gregorio III  "

Search for Poppa's mother
"BERNARD, illegitimate son of PEPIN I King of Italy & his mistress --- ([797]-Milan 17 Aug 818, bur Milan, San Ambrosio)...."
"...He was confirmed 11 Sep 813 at Aix-la-Chapelle as BERNARD I King of Italy, as vassal of the emperor..."
possibly married "Cunigundis,..."
King Bernard & his wife had one son:
1. PEPIN ([815]-after 850).
Source "From the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy Medlands page on Italy Kings (covering his birth family):" URL from this site.
http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ITALY,%20Kings%20to%20962.htm#_Toc203638190 [5]


"Of course many non-aristocratic people living today can claim descent from Royalty. Some family history researchers (myself included) like a descent from Royal lines as they can introduce into their ancestry foreign lines or ancient ancestors, like, for example, Charlemagne the Holy Roman Emperor (died 814) whom millions descend from.
Source http://freespace.virgin.net/owston.tj/royal.htm "

Doing further research, as my cousin Bruce is on the mend, and want to relay speedy recovery by way of Charlemagne.
Search: "Mormon Pioneer Genealogical Society, Salt Lake City, Utah, in 1985. " and "Professor Moriarty "

Yeilded: http://www.aledebasseville.com/2012/12/poppa-de-valois-de-bayeux-de-basseville_19.html
"Very hard to trust anything on the internet. What is found often is tidbits that lead to greater truths, as there are no actual truths, only perceptions of the Truth.
One could apply that to government, or history, as both are often rewritten" Roy Christopherson May 2015

This link provides a statue representing Poppa. A statue atop a fountain erected Place de Gaulle in Bayeux
Popa, mère de Guillaume Longue-Epée, fille du comte carolingien de Bayeux, Bérenger, statue commémorative érigée à Bayeux
Translates: Popa, mother of William Longsword , daughter of the Carolingian Count of Bayeux, Bérenger, memorial statue erected in Bayeux located at Hotel Particulier Poppa


CITATIONS
[1] Halfdan Helgason, Iceland
[2] Robert Sewell at http://www.robertsewell.ca/poppa.html
[3] Ancestry.com, Public Member Trees (Provo, UT, USA, Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2006), www.ancestry.com, Database online. Record for Snorri Hunbogason.
[4] Wikipedia text from the Logberg
[5] "From the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy Medlands page on Italy Kings (covering his birth family):"